[H-GEN] Windows to *nix

David Jericho david.jericho at aarnet.edu.au
Thu Sep 21 22:14:01 EDT 2006


Anthony Irwin wrote:
> Just wondering why you feel that way.

Because as I get further and further into this field, and the more I manage, the
more realise that I waste huge volumes of a measurable resource. That being my
and my staff's time.

The time is wasted by having to make something work properly, reliably and
securely.

> *nix has tons of cli programs that can be used in scripting or simply
> pipe output to different commands to do different things. Windows may
> have the ability but really how many programs do you have that can take
> advantage of it.

So does Windows. Services for Unix. Cygwin. Not to mention the scripting
components of Windows, which has an excellent interface into all sorts of
interesting APIs.

> know many developers that use vim or emacs in fact I am yet to meet a
> *nix developer that uses ide's but they are bound to be out there

As James quite correctly states, there are occasions were an IDE is the way to
go. I've known some programmers who'd blow the socks off people here, who love
their IDEs.

Someone who adopts and uses a tool that makes their task at hand easier and
potentially simpler, is smarter than someone who goes down the path of doing it
the hard way, Because Real Men Do It That Way. There is no reason why that
person cannot understand the magic smoke underneath, however, wasting time doing
it the hard way, is counter intuitive, and quite frankly, incredibly stupid.

I do not live for my computers. My computers exist as a tool for me. That is all
they are.

They are not an extension of my manhood, ego, personality or existence. They are
merely a tool, by which I make a comfortable living. I learn to use that tool to
a high degree, because that tool, once again, happens to make me a comfortable
living.

> I don't really agree with that. There are lots of great *nix software
> that has been ported to window and people use all the time. Firefox,
> Thunderbird, OpenOffice, Gimp and more.

And yet, the corporate world demands Outlook with Exchange, Office with
Sharepoint, 3D Studio Max with Backburner and friends.

There is not a single group ware software package for the Unix world that comes
close to Exchange. Those who will suggest their is, do not understand the power
present in Exchange. Sometimes there is no substitute. The same applies for so
many other applications.

> minimal system with just a mail server and don't need a graphical
> environment and all that other bulk that you won't be using. 

Disk, processor and RAM is cheap. If you are at the level where you are limited
by those factors, you are not running a SME or a home operation.

Get over it. Disk, processing power, and RAM is cheap. Really. Repeat after me...

> You don't
> have that control in Windows you have to have the graphical environment
> you can't choose to strip it down to the level that you can on a *nix
> system.

Rubbish. I suggest you go investigate the Windows world much closer. Information
like that is simply false, and belies a greater misunderstanding of the paradigm.

> Again I am wondering why you feel that way. I can think of many freat
> free software programs that windows users use on their computer over
> comercial equivilants.

Get over cost. Something is worth exactly what you are prepared to pay for it
out of your total resource pool. No more, no less. If you value your time at $0,
then sure, free software is nearly always the winning answer.

In my personal life, when buying toys or doing hobbies, I place an arbitrary
value of $50 per hour on my personal time. If it takes me more than an hour to
save $50, then I just fork over that $50. In my professional life, problem
solving is valued at a far higher rate, because it'll most probably consume my
time, some of my staff members time, and not to mention other users time.

> How can one have too much freedom? if its your computer you should be
> able to do what you want how you want.

But not on my network...

And in fact, even though my employer (and myself as a result) has access to tens
of Gbps of international bandwidth, and unimaginable volumes of bandwidth around
Australia, we don't get to do the "it's my network and I'll do what I want to".

Very quickly, we'd find ourselves being disconnected from other networks. We
have our freedoms because we chose to operate within a convention as defined
with others.

You only have as much freedom on your computer as it affects other people. The
moment your "freedoms" start making other people suffer, you'll find that you in
fact have less freedom.

Then again, on an island in the middle of the ocean, arguably you have infinite
freedom, to do nothing.

-- 
David Jericho
Senior System Administrator, AARNet
Phone:     +61 7 3317 9576
Mobile:    +61 4 2302 7185




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