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From: "Hilton Travis" <QuarkAudioVisual at email.com>
To: <general at lists.humbug.org.au>
Subject: RE: [H-GEN] The Gates Retirement Fund
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 20:29:53 +1000
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Hi Frank,

> -----Original Message-----
> From: lists.humbug.org.au Mailing List Manager 
> [mailto:mdlishum at zerlargal.humbug.org.au] On Behalf Of Frank Brand
> Sent: Thursday, 4 October 2001 17:59
> To: general at lists.humbug.org.au
> Subject: Re: [H-GEN] The Gates Retirement Fund
> 
> >actually that's more like what i do. i'm not the official 
> owner of the software in that i haven't been the one to
> >shell out the cash, but i have the permission of the person
> >who did pay for it to use their cdkey, and i only use what
> >they're no longer using. (my father is quite fussy about
> >which version of windows he'll have installed on his 
> >machine)
> 
> 
> IANAL but I think MS claims that the licences are not 
> transferable - it is certainly the case if you bought a 
> package like Dell or Gateway where the licence was part of 
> the deal. I know that is the case in the US. They also claim 
> this in other jurisdictions but it is not yet tested. The 
> issue has been taken to the courts in Germany and MS lost. 
> However, in the US EBay can not have second hand MS software 
> on sale. Actually, in law they can but MS makes it so tough 
> to do in practice that you really need to be keen. Obviously 
> tthe greatest threat to new MS software is the exsistence of 
> old MS software. Who is going to shell out for XP when they 
> have a copy of Win 98 say.

I do spend a fair bit of time with Microsoft licensing issues.
Basically, as far as transferrability goes, if an OEM License was
purchased with a machine (ant this is the only way these licenses can
NOW be bought) then the license remains with that physical machine and
cannot be transferred to another machine in any circumstances(1).
Earlier on, OEM licenses could be purchased with a motherboard or hard
drive, and the license is locked to that particular piece of
hardware(2).  MOLP is different (now known as Open Licensing, from
memory) as is Select.

> >i'm not entirely sure how the law works in this case tho. i 
> >didn' t pay for the software, and i'm not in possession of
> >the original cd or certificate of authentication.
> 
> 
> mmmm no certificate, no original disk, no evidence at all of 
> purchase...Federal police visit...sorry Miss but $25,000 fine 
> and confiscation of your equipment (well I think it is 
> $25,000 fine anyway...these software things are quite 
> draconian). Thats why not many big companies like to take MS 
> on...if the software police come to check 5,000 machines they 
> are bound to find a number of unlicenced boxes.

$5000 for personal and $25000 for corporate PER INFRINGEMENT, up to
$50000 personal and $250000 corporate.  Plus any civil damages (no
limit).  If you do not have the license (EULA) there and the Software
Police come and have a look through your sock drawer for the license, if
you let 'em know it is held elsewhere, guess who else they'll be
**really** likely to audit?  You need to have the EULA to have a legal
license, and anything it also requires (such as previous qualifying full
copy if it is an Upgrade EULA).

> I saw a guy pay $300 for a cardboard box at an auction one 
> day...I asked him why he did that...he said it had 60 Win 95 
> licence certificates in it and he was just covering his butt.

Wonder which company they were stolen from?

> On EBAY MS insists that everything that was in the box at 
> purchase is included with the next sale Iincluding the 
> packaging, pamphlets and cards etc. Who keeps them?

I keep everything that comes in a box.  Why toss it if you are going to
keep the box anyway?  It's a useful (if space consuming, at times) habit
to get into.

- Hilton


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