[H-GEN] The legal mess that is multimedia codecs for open source distros.

[Dennis Gilmore]

Once upon a time Thursday 14 June 2007, David Seikel wrote:
> As some of you know, I do some contract work for Terra Soft Solutions
> (TSS), who make Yellow Dog Linux (YDL).  They like to make use of the
> untapped social skills I didn't know I had.  One of my current tasks is
> to sort out the legal mess that is multimedia codecs for open source
> distro companies.  TSS wants YDL to play popular multimedia stuff like
> MP3, DVD, WMV, and Flash out of the box.  TSS is a small USA company, so
> software patents and lots of exorbitant license fees are making this
> tricky.
>
> Not being able to play MP3s, DVDs, and web videos out of the box makes
> Linux distros look pathetic.  Users don't understand about the legal
> issues and think it is a technical limitation of Linux.  Linux is quite
> capable of playing these things, it's the "out of the box" legal issues
> that stops it from happening.  So this is not just TSS's problem, I'm
> looking for an industry wide solution.

There wont ever be one  not until DMCA goes away.  Law's in different 
countries result in different acceptable solutions being acceptable.


> aj may want to respond to this as the head honcho of arguably the
> largest non commercial distro in the world.  How does Debian handle
> this?  Please explain the philosophy behind your solution.  Or just
> tell me to piss off.  B-)

Fedora's philosophy is that all software we allow in  has to be freely 
redistributable.   it also has to be free of Patents, or the patents covering 
the software need to be royalty free for us, our users and anyone doing 
derivative works like TSS does.

> What we really need is a set of licensed open source multimedia
> libraries that all open source distros (even non Linux ones) can use.
> We have the open source libraries already.  FFmpeg for instance is used
> by most software as a source of these codecs, and it covers most of
> what we need, other libraries can fill in the gaps.  We need to get the
> distro companies together to chip in and pay for licensing these
> libraries as a group.  We need to cooperate to form a large enough group
> that we might be able to swing licensing source code instead of
> binaries.
>
> One issue is that licenses are likely to only cover particular binaries.
> A lot of the debate seems to be centred around closed binary blobs as a
> non solution, but it really should be about licensing the open source
> solutions that we already have.  It's a legal issue, not a technical
> one.  The technical issues are all solved, TSS (and other distro
> companies) just aren't allowed to distribute them.  On the other hand,
> licensed open source binaries are likely to be for x86, and YDL is
> strictly for Power based CPUs (PPC, CELL).  There are other non x86
> machines people may want to install a pre packaged distro on and not
> have to worry about installing their own multimedia stuff with no
> support from the distro company.  Licensing the source code is the key.

The key is getting the companies who hold the patents to give rights to use 
the patents  to anyone writing distributing and using open source 
implementations.   this is where XMMS got it half right  they had the right 
to use mp3 and distribute it.  where it got difficult was that it did not 
give anyone else the right to redistribute the code.  Debian, Fedora, YDL, 
SuSE all need to be able to redistribute the code and resulting binaries.

> Eric S. Raymond and Rob Landley wrote this paper which neatly sums up
> the situation and also details my preferred solution -
>
> http://catb.org/~esr/writings/world-domination/world-domination-201.html
>
> You can skip the bit at the beginning about world domination and go
> straight to the bit about multimedia codecs.  My preferred solution is
> the "Codex" that they describe, a collection of licensed codecs on a CD
> that plugs neatly into every distro and is available for a nominal fee
> that covers the licensing fees.

ESR's philosophy's are harmful for Free and open source software.

> As the paper says, Linspire had a head start on creating this "Codex",
> so my approach was to contact Eric S. Raymond and Rob Landley to and
> figure out how I was gonna approach Linspire.  At first I was working
> with Rob Landley (with Eric S. Raymond in the loop) conspiring on how
> best to approach Linspire to get TSS in on their version of the
> "Codex".  Then this happened -
>
> http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/06-1
>4-2007/0004608008&EDATE=
>
> Which makes things murky when you consider this -
>
> http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS4862361523.html

The generic patent deal Novell and now Xandros have sounds like the SCO case.  
If they have things they think are covered by their pantents then they need 
to make there claim  not do things that only cause FUD.

> and other such things.  So I'm rethinking my approach, hoping to come up
> with a Plan B when corporate mind share games get in the way of Plan A.
>
> What are your thoughts?

Unfortunatly Patents on software are here.  all they do is stifle innovation  
because of the way they are used.  Until we can eliminate them and the DMCA  
we wont be able to get a solution that is entriely acceptable.

> Things that are likely to come up in this discussion -
>
> "Just distribute a script to download and install legally
> dodgy libraries, or point users at a web page that describes how to
> install this stuff." - Not really the out of the box experience the
> boss wants, and it's still legally dubious to do these things according
> to USA law.  The lawyers tell me that this falls under the category of
> conspiracy to work around copy protection devices or some such
> nonsense.  The boss doesn't want to take that risk.

not an acceptable solution ever.


> "What about Fluendo?" - Fluendo makes licensed plugins for GStreamer,
> which leaves non GStreamer based software out of the loop.  Sure they
> could be part of the solution, but they are not the complete solution.
> Note that GStreamer can make use of FFmpeg codecs.

I see this as the best option.  i know in Fedora we are working on a "Codec 
Buddy" Application that will give some info on why the codecs are not 
included and provide links to Fluendo so users may buy a legal solution.  I 
dont know if the have WMA support or not.

> "FFmpeg is legally dubious." - Well, yes, solving that sort of thing is
> what this is all about.  Note that while I'm not pushing for FFmpeg as
> the one true collection of codecs, my research found that most
> multimedia software can make use of FFmpeg codecs.  This made it a nice
> choice if only one had to be chosen.  Which is why I use it as an
> example.

unfortunately most OSS implementations of Codec's are legally dubious in the 
US.  they all pretty much violate  DMCA.  

gnash seems to be doing much better these days.  ive been meaning to test it 
on sparc linux.  PPC linux is also supported. 

Dennis
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