[H-GEN] PC's for Kids Inc

David Findlay david_j_findlay at yahoo.com.au
Sat Jul 21 22:59:23 EDT 2001


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Here is a forward of a discussion I have had with the Mangaer of PC's for 
Kids, the group that were providing free computers for needy children, until 
MS stepped in and stopped them. I have recommended RedHat Linux to them(don't 
worry AJ, I am still a Debian fanatic, but I don't want them to have sysadmin 
hell). This is the full discussion. They seem interested, so I have told them 
about a number of the programs they would need to use, and what could be 
useful for the kids.

Also, i have pointed them to MLUG so they should be able to get help there. 
Please read the whole discussion below. My first message is right down the 
bottom. Thanks,

David

P.S. I have CC'd this to Brent Wesley, because the last time I tried to post 
to the general list it didn't work.

----------  Forwarded Message  ----------

Subject: Re: Operating Systems for your machines
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 12:48:32 +1000
From: David Findlay <david_j_findlay at yahoo.com.au>
To: "Pc's for Kids Inc" <admin at pcsforkids.org>

On Sat, 21 Jul 2001 21:12, Pc's for Kids Inc hit his keyboard with his head

and the result was this:
> Linux is one option open to the Pc's for Kids project - There are many who
> voiced this to be a strong issue - Our assistants are trying to make this
> happen as I write and this new wave is a whole new learning curve for us
> all. If you have any packages that can suit our listed systems please duly
> advise?
> Our project has 3 main products we distribute to kids:
> 1. 486 SX Machines 8MB and 300 HDD (These go to assist Rotary in their
> Donations In Kind Project to Pacific Islands)

For 486 machines RedHat Linux is the best. The 8Mb ram and 300 Mb hard drive
will be pushiing the limits a bit, but using KDE's inbuilt office package,
which doesn't have as many features as OpenOffice you could do it. To use
their files from school they would have to save their documents in RTF(rich
text format). However, the three major word processing projects for Linux are
currently getting together to work on their support for .doc format, so in
the future all Koffice will have this feature.

You would have to remove all uncessary packages when you install, like
there's a whole bunch of servers and daemons and stuff that kids wouldn't
need. I did once install Linux on a DX33 With 32Mb's of ram and a 210Mb hard
drive, and it was quite useable.

> 2. 486 DX Series with the 16mb and a 420 HDD (We send these to very young
> children to the age of 10)

This would probably have enough space to run OpenOffice. www.linuxforkids.org
has lots of educational games for kids, so there is sure to be something that
would be suitable.

> 3. Low End Pentium 75 / 90 / 100 / 120 / 133 / 166 these have a full
> package provided - CD / 16MB / 850 HDD Min / Sound / and 56.6 Modem. (This
> is our most requested and addresses 100% of most children needs)

This would easily run Linux. The only problem you could face is the modem.
External modems work best on Linux, although some Lucent chipset internal
modems will now go. see www.linmodems.org for info on that.

> If you have Dos 6.22 with Windows 3.11 or Windows 95/98 with Reg Books
> laying around or other parts or items that can assist - we invite your
> donation.

I'll see what I can find. Getting to Melbourne may be hard, but I'll see what
I can do.

> (Microsoft) MS is in our schools and kids understand this very well - Our
> concern is support needed in many locations should we be forced to alter
> our systems OS.

This could be a problem. There are Linux users groups around the world, plus
lots of documentation and websites with info, so this may help. There are
some inexpensive beginners books about Linux, like the Linux pocket book APC
magazine produced a while back. I would imagine that kids would be able to
learn it pretty quickly, and the KDE desktop is largely self explanitory.
Also there would probably be some teachers at various schools who would know
Linux, hopefully. Talking to the Melbourne Linux Users Group may be a good
way to get started on this bit.

> These Q&A will be raised when the time comes - But we must face and stand
> up to MS - For the issues that the Press reported and other key factors.

Maybe telling your story to Slashdot would be a good idea. www.slashdot.org
is a web site for "Geek news". It's where all the Linux people hang out. You
can submit a story to them by clicking on submit on the left hand side. If
you make it to the front page, expect your web site to go down for a while,
because within the first 2 minutes of a web site being reffered to there,
200000 visitors arrive at your site :-). It's a good way to get worldwide
publicity. There is a lot of outrage there about what Microsoft gets up to,
and not many people have ever beat them. If you'd like I could submit them a
story about your organisation.

> Let's face it - What we did was not LEGAL and Microsoft will not take this
> matter into account on past acts - But in the eye of the public we are a
> Charity trying to assist our next generation.

There is a difference between "legal" and "right". It would be good to see M$
release there old software free, but the thing is people don't need anything
more than Windows 98, so why would they buy MS's new products? This is
Microsoft's reasoning, and I don't think they will change quickly. Of course,
I could be wrong. But looking at the new Windows XP, I don't think many
people will be buying it, so they may try and force you to by not making the
older versions available at all.

> If the big boys want to
> tackle a charity for the sake of Greed and starve the Less Fortunate
> Children then we ALL have problems.

Yeah. Well, if you can generate enough publicity you might just succeed. But
hopefully in the mean time you might be able to continue your operations with
the help of Linux, until this is resovled.

> If you want to E-Mail Mr. Gates please be our guest (We know this works)
> BillG at microsoft.com

I'll try it. :-)

> We write this reply to you and call it "Freeware" please feel free to post
> it and let's all let the Big-Boys understand that we do care.

Okay.

Thanks,

David

-------------------------------------------------------



----- Original Message -----
From: "David Findlay" <david_j_findlay at yahoo.com.au>
To: <admin at pcsforkids.org>
Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2001 6:28 PM
Subject: Operating Systems for your machines


> Hello,
>
> I saw the story on your company on A Current Affair and would like to tell
> you about a possible solution.
>
> The Linux operating system is a totally free and powerful operating system
> for PCs. The liscense allows and encourages you to copy it as many times

as
> you want. It is released under the GNU GPL, which allows you to do

virtually
> anything with it, as long as you give others the same right. The operating
> system is fast approaching the useability for Windows, and is much more
> powerful. Some of the advantages of Linux:
>
> - The user learns more about computers
> - Thousands of free applications
> - Runs well on older machines
>
> I would recommend using a either Mandrake(www.linux-mandrake.com) or
> RedHat(www.redhat.com) Linux distributions. You could either download it

and
> put it on a CD yourself, or buy a CD from a distributer and load that on

all
> your machines. You can make as many copies as you want. You could provide

a
> copy of the CDs with each machine you give away, all of this for free.
>
> I have been using Linux personally for four years now, and I am sure that

if
> kids were using Linux to learn computers, they would understand them much
> better than they would with Windows based systems. In fact, the French
> goverment currently has a program of Linux education in their schools. I
> would recommend that you set up the systems with KDE 2(a desktop system -
> www.kde.org), OpenOffice(www.openoffice.org) and the Gimp(www.gimp.org).

This
> would provide kids with all the software required to do their homework and
> learn about computers. All of this software is free, under the same

liscense
> as Linux. Here are some other programs I use that may be useful for you:
>
> - Blender - 3D modelling and rendering tool
> - Emacs - very powerful text editing program
> - Konqueror - KDE's web browser
> - XMMS - music player
> - Avifile and plaympeg - video players
> - Wine - An implementation of Windows API's on LInux - allows you to run

some
> windows apps on Linux
> - FlightGear - a free flight simulator
>
> plus many thousand more. All the tools you need to learn to be a

programmer
> are freely available, there are maths programs, even voice recognition and
> synthesis that allows blind people to use a computer. To see some of the
> other applications available try www.freshmeat.net. There is more

information
> on Linux at www.linux.com and many other sites.
>
> The other advantage of Linux over Windows is the community. The Linux
> community helps each other like none other. You can get help from dozens

of
> newsgroups, emailing the software authors themselves, and mailling lists.
> There are also many Linux User Groups around the world. I think you are

near
> Melbourne, anyway the Melbourne Linux User Group can be contacted by:
>
> www.mlug.org.au
> puttputt at ebbs.com.au
> Telephone Contact (Australia): 0425-710-467
>
> Anyone can join and I'm sure they would be only to happy to help you out.

If
> you want any more information on Linux, or need help getting systems going

on
> Linux, please feel free to email me with your questions. Using Linux would
> allow you to legally keep running your organisation, and help kids learn

more
> about computers. The experience they gain could also help them get into

the
> computer industry when they grow up. Thanks,
>
> David Findlay

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